Cyanotypes, Sacred Objects and a Practice of Intimacy


Ash Allen in conversation with Esra Canoğulları
Photography by Alex Burholt 

At the base of a white bathtub a shimmer of light shines through a pool of water. Deep cyan blue develops into the fibers of a rectangle of canvas, slowly being pushed through a transformation. The image of a seated figure reaching towards a beam of light is revealed in the cloth, mirroring the exposure process that they emerged through. 

The intimate and meditative process of cyanotype printing has lived alongside Ash Allen’s personal life and art practice, from his years in Oakland to his current home in Brooklyn. Regardless of his space, he’s figured out a way to build an exposure unit and use the bathroom in his home as a studio. Ash’s imagery is as personal as his process, using digital collage to create moments of self reflection and self portraiture, alongside images of his community and objects that are sacred to him or his subjects. 

Ash and I had met casually, in Oakland, where I would see him on the dance floor of my DJ sets. We became close friends after connecting in the summer of 2021 over a bowl of Pho in Oakland after I asked him to collaborate. We realized that day that we were both moving to New York at the same time. A year and a half later we sat on my bed and began to chat about his art practice, relationship to objects, the circulation of his work and the influence music has on his art: 

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Stream Blue Element, a playlist by Ash Allen

E: How did you arrive at printmaking and cyanotypes as the main process used for your work? 

A: I was super interested in printmaking in general and was working mostly with screen printing, doing some work out of the Grease Diner screen printing studio in Oakland. Then the first lockdown in Covid happened. So they closed down their studio and I started building out my own screen printing set up at home. 

I was like, okay, how am I still going to do this? So I built some screen printing setups at home and I was researching different printmaking methods and I found out about cyanotype and I tried it once and I was just like – "Oh, this is it." I knew immediately that it was what I wanted to keep working with and keep exploring. So I almost completely stopped screen printing at that point and just transitioned into just working with cyanotypes. After the first one that I did, I was obsessed with the process immediately.

E: The process of cyanotype involves light, water and all these elements that you also reference in your imagery. I'm curious about how the process of cyanotype inspires the imagery that you use in your subject matter..

A: It's kind of weird actually because when I am working on a specific image with cyanotype, before I do the exposure, when I'm making the image in Photoshop, it's never super intentional. It's never like, oh, I want to make a picture of someone sitting and there's one hand raised and there's some swirl of energy going up it or something like that. I don't really see it that very often. For me, it's more of an automatic thing. And then after I see it, I'm looking at a reflection of a part of the process that I'm in. So it's kind of subconscious, but it always is a reflection or a representation of where I'm at in my life. I could actually tangent on that a little bit, but I want to focus on the question. There's something super healing for me about it, the process itself and watching my own transformations take place over the last few years.

E: You use a process that's based in shifting a material from one state to another. There's these moments of transformation that happen through acts of pushing the textile through a process. But then also the imagery– you'll be using a ray of light, or the subject looks like they are going through some sort of process or transformation.

A: Definitely. And the fact that the main components of the process are light and water is in itself, a representation of vitality. I think about that a lot in my process. To me, the imagery is super empowering. After the images are produced, I find myself holding them in my head and reflecting on them. If I'm experiencing anxiety or going through it in some way, I go back to the images and hold them in my mind.

A: Cyanotypes are also super accessible. It's a printmaking method that is very easy to work with, without access to a studio space. For me, when I started doing it in the pandemic, I was like, "Oh, I can do this easily." Because I was working out of my house, which I still do. So the whole process was super accessible for me at the time and it continues to be that way in all the spaces that I've lived in. I’ve always had my at home exposure unit set up or tucked away in the closet or something. 

E: I feel like that's an important part of your work too– being able to morph. Your process can take shape in any space you have access to and the imagery changes with you as you move. Which is rare for a lot of artists who might need access to a studio to produce their work.

A: I enjoy it a lot where I have it now. I've spent time learning through trial and error and the process is very controlled at this point. When I started doing it, most people would do cyanotypes outdoors with the sun. I remember when it started to get cloudy in the Bay Area, I was like, okay, how am I going to do this? I was trying to keep it consistent and keep working and the sun was just not a variable that I could rely on all the time. So I switched to an indoor exposure unit and that's what I've used ever since. Just because it's super controlled and reliable.

E: You personalized the process and made it your own. Having that control makes it so that you can experiment with different hues or values. And I think that that's interesting too because you’ve visually committed to the color of the cyan blue, and are learning and studying it in a way. Sometimes people just use cyanotype to get an image onto a fabric but you have developed an intentional relationship to the cyan blue in your work.

A: Yeah. I would use test swatches and find the perfect amount of time to expose with the wattage of the bulb that I have until I found the perfect blue that I wanted to work with. So for me that was like... It's just 32 minutes every time. That's my favorite shade of cyanotype.

Also, there's a beauty and intimacy with yourself when it comes to a self taught creative process, I think a lot of the time when things are taught they are taught to you in the most effective and most “right” way. When you’re just alone in a room bouncing ideas off yourself and learning through mistakes you get to really discover your own way of navigating a process, that's what has made cyanotypes so intimate for me and so deeply personal, both the work and the imagery. It happened in a container, I didn’t have a teacher with me and it was pretty challenging at times especially in the beginning but in the end really beautiful and rewarding. 

E: I think that it's an important part of your work and it transfers through a lot of different parts of it. The way that you want your work to be accessible, the way you engage with different parts of your communities. It's cool that those things can be present in your process without forcing it. It's an effortless part of your process and how you move through the world and how you’ve arrived at this way of making art. I wanted to shift and start talking a little bit about your imagery and how using the human body has always been a central theme of your work. How has your use of the human form evolved over time?

A: I think for me, my work has always served as self-portraiture. It's always been snapshots of moments of reflection, personal transformation, breakthroughs, reflections of my emotional state, my spiritual state, and things that I've gone through with sobriety. There's a lot of that in there. In the beginning when I started working, I was working a lot more with erotica and sexuality.

Another thing that I've noticed that's really interesting actually, that I've just really recently noticed is that my... The forms, the human forms in my work, if you look back, they actually look a little more constrained by the things that are in the environment they are placed in, the objects and the energy or whatever it is that's interacting with the human body. They actually looked a little more constrained in the beginning and now they look a lot more illuminated and free or empowered. I think that's interesting just because of watching the work change with the transitions that I've made in my life with moving out of the Bay Area to New York. Witnessing changes in my life and seeing the work change too has just felt natural and not really calculated or planned at all.

E: I was thinking about how you've used your digital collage process as a form of self portraiture but also how your work has included photos of friends or community members. What's the role of self-portraiture versus interpretation of a subject?

A: In the beginning I was referencing vintage gay porn. So I was finding a lot of vintage gay porn and working with that. Then more recently after that, it's just been mostly royalty free or stock images from online. I do a lot of digging, searching for poses that inspire me. I think that also goes into just the accessibility of how I started working during COVID.

E: Because you didn't have access to photographing people.

A: I didn't have access to photographing people so I used digital collage which has always kind of been a part of my work. It was out of necessity in the beginning because I found the process during COVID. It’s always been a goal of mine to incorporate members of my community and people around me through photography. So post quarantine, the times that I've done that have felt super special. I've always wanted to use the work as a way to build community and connect with other people. The beginning part of my practice was a really isolated creative process. Not to say isolated in a negative way. It was just a lot of solitude and deep personal reflections. I wanted to see that shift happen of being able to have my process be more collaborative.

E: Shifting from the body, I'm thinking about your relationship to objects and materials like metal, fabric and chain that you use in the digital collage. What inspires you about these objects and materials, some of them appear as repeating symbols in your work. 

A: I've always been really inspired by the objects that people collect and the objects that people keep around and how they represent us. Just the fact that some of them will exist longer than we do and our collection of things will outlive us. To me there's something beautiful about that, it’s grounding when I look at my own things in my room. All of the objects that are repeating in my work, especially earlier when I was focused really on physical objects, were all things I had in my room that I would photograph and then put in the prints. So all of those things I still have in my current room. Some of those things were the most important things to me when I moved. When I was moving with just what I could fit in three suitcases, those were highlight items that had to come.

E: Could you name a few of those objects?

A: My Mercedes-Benz hood ornaments. I love those. I love my locks with keys and my metal objects. I have these two metal rings that are clasped together by a lock with a key in it. I've had that for years. And it just has always sat on my window and in every room that I've lived in. I love it. And it's a fidget too. I hold it when I'm at home.

It's those kinds of objects, a lot of them don't really have a specific function. They're ornamental things that we keep around. Those things I've had with me for years. It's cool because I've moved a lot in the last 10 years from Portland to Oakland to San Francisco to New York. Those objects have been there in all of those places in all the different iterations of what my life has looked like in those places. So it's special, there's an intimacy between us with our objects. I love to also see when I'm in somebody else's room, what objects they choose to keep around.

E: I wanted to ask you about the name @soft_shvde which is also your instagram handle. You had mentioned it to me before in past conversations as an idea or theme that inspires your work sometimes. I'm just curious how you came up with that name and what it means to you within your process..

A: I don't even know if it's the right word, but I think of soft shade as a reprieve, some sort of a release or a retreat from normal consciousness day to day. I see the world in my mind of soft shade as a watery healing state of mind and body that is a retreat from our normal day to day consciousness. I want it to feel like that, that's what it feels like for me. It's my favorite place to go. Also to me, Soft Shade just sounds like a sexy world of relaxation.

E: What is your relationship to music and working with musicians? I know you've done some commissions for musicians and we’ve been able to work together in the past. I also know that music is something that inspires you a lot. So I was curious about how sound orbits around your creative and visual world.

A: It's huge. Yeah. I feel like it wouldn't exist without the musical component too, in terms of how I access that state of mind, it's always about Ambient music and Trance classics. Always. Those are the two genres that bring me to a state of mind that I feel like creating in. It's also the music that I play when I create. Also to me, I feel like the work should be viewed while listening to Ambient and Trance music.

I almost wish my art was always viewed while listening to that. I feel like it makes a lot more sense, a lot of times in those images, that's how I feel when I'm listening to music. So it's super tied together. When I'm at home and I'm exposing prints and I'm working on an image or something like that, I'm always listening to very ethereal, Ambient music or Trance. So yeah, they're super connected.

E: You circulate your own work through selling prints online via your website and through posting on Instagram. The process that you use to make your work is accessible, and the way that you circulate your work is also really accessible. You've managed to still show your work in a lot of different contexts digitally and have a pretty big following through it. It’s always exciting to see artists have autonomy over how their work is sold and circulated. 

A: I've always tried to make it as accessible as possible. For a long time I've had people telling me that I need to raise my prices. Over time I have raised my prices a little bit, but I've still tried to keep things accessible, or at least have things available on a tier so that certain people can afford and if other people want to spend more money they can. So that part of it feels really cool. 

I have wanted to circulate my work independently because it's possible. That's the super attractive part to me about the creative process is I wasn't professionally trained in any of the design work or print making stuff that I do. I was self taught in all of it just watching videos on YouTube and learning through trial and error during lockdown, figuring out what works. I want to share that, because I think for a lot of artists they do tend to gatekeep their creative process because they want to protect it. It's just because we exist in a world of scarcity where everything is very branded. You know what I mean….its like:  “Oh, that's mine. And that's what I do and that's what I give. And I shouldn't share exactly how that happens because then it's a threat or something.” I don't really believe that I just have always wanted my art and process to be super accessible. I want people to have it and have it and for it to exist in people's homes, to me that's really special.

E: It's nice to be able to see your work live digitally but then also because it is usually a textile, there's an intimacy to it and you want to be able to touch it or have it in your home. You've made wearable things too because cyanotypes are such a fabric based process. It's exciting to see how it can evolve and be something that people can either wear, carry with them or show on their wall.

A: There's a lot of beauty in just the textile itself too, and the interweaving of individual strands into a fabric too. It represents how I feel like people are connected through this work too. You know what I mean?

E: What is the importance of archiving your work at this stage, now that you've kind of really created a huge body of work of cyanotypes? This is a process that you've really honed in on. You've mentioned to me before that you're interested in making a book… Talk a little bit about this upcoming book that you're working on and the process of archiving that you've been going through.

A: I've been taking a lot of time recently working on this book called Liquid Blue that I'm going to be releasing in a few months. I started working three months ago at a print studio in Manhattan and I'm learning about so many different printing methods that I did not have access to before. We are working with six or more different types of printers. Machines that do dye cuts on stickers and vinyl and book binding machines, and so many different weights of paper and foil printing. So I want this book to archive the body of work that focuses on my cyanotypes specifically and put it all into one place.

"I see the world in my mind of soft shade as a watery healing state of mind and body that is a retreat from our normal day to day consciousness. I want it to feel like that, that's what it feels like for me. It's my favorite place to go."

A: I also want this book to highlight all the different printmaking methods that I've learned at my new job. I want to incorporate stickers and foil printing and a creased centerfold, all these different things that I didn't know how to do before. There will also be a section where theres an instructional on how to do a cyanotype with everything that I've learned through trial and error and all the parts of my process that I use to create what I make right now. I'm going to have, in the back quarter of the book. I’ll also explain how to build your own indoor exposure unit.

A: Yeah. How to build your own indoor exposure unit. I want to have the swatches of different times of exposed cyanotypes on there for the different hues of blue that you can make. Drying times, rinsing, and how you get good contrast. I want to have all that stuff listed in the back because I want to circulate the knowledge of the printmaking process behind it too.

I also want it to be something that somebody wants sitting out on their coffee table. So I'm putting a lot of work into that right now and just approaching it with patience, but I'm very excited about it because I feel like I am going to be moving into different mediums soon. Cyanotype will always be a part of my work and I think I'll always visit it, but it's been the main focus for so long. I have been in this slightly uncomfortable growth period over, I would say the last year, honestly, where in the beginning with my work, I would sit down and I didn't put any thought into it. I was just kind of turning shit out. It was also during lockdown, so there were not a lot of other things going on. 

Now, my approach to my work is I've felt a little more puzzled by it, there's been this kind of anxious, almost growing pain feeling of moving into something different. Which has been unclear for me for a while, but in the past month or so, the directions that I want to move in have been becoming way more clear. I'm having really solid images in my mind of the clothes that I want to start working with again. So I want to use this book as a way to put that body of work in one place before I move on from it a little bit or move in a different direction. Wearables are honestly all I can think about right now with my work. I've been daydreaming about it all the time and I'm really excited about that.

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ASH ALLEN

ANDRÉA C. NIETO:
More honest than good. 

In a flimsy notebook is written the process of nearly every roll we’ve developed in the last three years, times and dilutions and unique formulas, many mistakes. A space for notes at the bottom to talk about results (errors).

My background in science and clinics and research makes me very formulaic, very, “this worked” vs “this didn’t” due to cause of X. Inevitably, the formula is polluted by what it feels like. 

When I look at the image I remember how I felt when I was holding the camera. When I look at my notes on development and print, I’m reminded  of the second interception in making a photo.

When I continue to make the image far away from where I took it, I’m transported to what I felt, where I made a decision to take the image and then however long later, I find out what I think. 

These are pictures I’ve felt uncomfortable with but for some reason couldn’t stop looking at and grew a closeness to, and after a print or many different types of scans, a development process that produced an image so far away from what all my other images look like the only consistency is that I took them. I notice attentiveness to scenes, arrangements or my own position with the camera over the span of 8 years and get to know myself more that way. Asi veo cuando estoy enamorada, desesperada, desenamorando (no debía tomar esa.) 

[thats how I look when I’m in love, desperate, falling out of love (I shouldn't have taken that one.)]

To continue making images for me is to continue to confront disappearance and dying and commit to making images that are more honest than they are good. I am so tired of good photo. 

In the same way, I feel very simply on a mountain about my mortality:  “I will miss this” 

when I’m in the darkroom I feel about my work:  I simply make photos because I love them, they bring me pleasure. 

I am not sure what purpose they all serve. 

Some Notes on these Prints/ Scans/ Developments:

Developed the last Malinche roll in a more concentrated microfine stock [developer] and tried the steam pushing [method to push to film a stop with hydrogen peroxide steam] which worked but it’s all weird. The sky is darker than I remember it being and like the veracruz roll it has some of those spots. 

I’m frustrated with never being consistent enough to find out what the problem is in development, I can see my impatience. Printing might help. 

[note I took next to a print of 8. Malinche] 

In the small valley behind the peak I have my face pressed to a batch of small moss and knees in small pink rocks. It is warmer here than the peak and still early, it is dry and my breath is shallow and I’m a bit light headed.

The position of my body makes me think of the dream I started having last year, the one where I am on a wet dark rock in a cave where the ocean still comes in and it's humid to where my breath is shallow like it is now on the top of this mountain. I breathe into the rock and it breathes back into me and the rock becomes softer and I am writing into it with my fingers like it's sand and I can hear someone who is also in the cave say, “asi se escribe un epitafio”. My head moves in cycles between mountains and ports and peaks and caves, for the last year, and I become very obsessive about being there more so than making anything about it, writing and printing happen in loops to understand what I think, after time I see those errantries. 

Rescanned the roll from Brazil 2016 and Mazatlan last week and see the same things which makes me wonder what happens to me when I’m near the water with my family to make me take similar pictures. I think about the conversation Em and I had the other night.

Obsesiono con las cosas no por hacer trabajo o una imagen o un símbolo, pero porque los amo tanto, porque tomo tiempo con ellos. [I obsess with things not to make work or an image or a symbol, but because I love them so much, because I take time with them.]

A friend asks me if this works for my work. If I am being honest

No se si esto me conviene emocionalmente– meterme en mi trabajo cuando me siento así, a veces me llena y a veces me deja desvencijada. [I don’t know if it works for me emotionally– to go into my work when I feel like that, sometimes it fills me and sometimes it leaves me broken apart.]

Quiero destacar cualquier insinuación para ser frugal para decir lo quiero decir y quebrarlo. Que foto como amor siempre me provoca ir más lejos, ser más honesta. Menos enamoramiento con como se ve o funciona una imagen y más con el compromiso con cómo se siente uno. En tiempos que salían buenas, tenerme fe no era tan difícil. [I want to bring out every insinuation to be frugal with saying what I want to say and break it. That photo like love always provokes me to go further, to be more honest. Less infatuation with how it looks or functions and more with the commitment to how one feels. 

In times when they came out good, having faith wasn’t so hard.]

Ahora salen exigentes y tienen ego y sepan lo carnoso que son y bueno ahí hay que tener fe cuando se siente uno así. Demasiado. [now they come out demanding and they have ego and they know how fleshy they are and well there you have to have faith when one feels like that. A lot.]

A word that comes to mind is fortitude. 

(1). Kelatzli y una piramide, Print, Febrero 2022, (2). Olas altas de CA. Scan, Sept. 2022, (3). Lo cumple 28. Small contact print. Jun. 2022, (4). Untitled, MX. Scan, Aug. 2016, (5). Untitled. CA  September 2016, (6). Tulip Ave. Oakland. Scan. July 2020, (7). em en rio. Print. May 2020, (8). Cima de Malinche Vapor Pushed. Scan. Nov. 2022, (9). 2. NY. Scan. Jun 2017, (10). Naima Oakland. July 2019 (11). Maliche. Scan from contact sheet. Nov. 2022, (12). Glaciar de Iztaccihuatl. Scan. Nov. 2021, (13). Halloween Iztapalapa. Scan. Nov. 2021, (14). Isa in Detroit. Sept. 2020, (15). Perro. Iztapalapa. Oct. 2020, (16). Feb 2022, (17). Cancha Mazatlan. Sept. 2022

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ANDRÉA C. NIETO

MARLO MAGDALENE'S: A CALL FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE

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marlo magdalene is a filmmaker whose work explores the transgressive space of Black memory, social death, intercellular trauma, and the underbelly of the stories we tell ourselves about ourselves. The horror genre for marlo will always be the only space that can hold all these truths because in horror there is no ethical way to scale the moral boundaries of our own macabre realities. In horror, the stories we recite to ourselves about ourselves can be both celebrated and demonized in all its grotesque beauty. It is in the realm of the nightmares, where we can confront the very truth that keeps us up at night. 

A Call From Inside the House is a short experimental interview between writer reek bell and filmmaker marlo magdalene. The two artists discuss marlo's obsession with horror films and the significance of femme monsters in cinema. 

“As I finish the script for my debut feature film, I can’t help but wonder how it's important to identify the monster within yourself. This short is about surrendering to the things that possess your mind, body, and soul through a gothic lens. A meta take on how it feels to find yourself in the making of your own work.”

Reference Footage: Ganja and Hess, 1973, directed by Bill Gunn, starring Marlene Clark, DP Bruno Nuytten, YouTube. Possession, 1981, directed by Andrzej Zulawski, starring Isabelle Adjani, DP James E. Hinton, YouTube 

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A Call From Inside the House

D’ANDRE WILLIAMS: FIRST TIME IN LONDON


Wide Edit no.04 photos captured in London

This may or may not have been the most spontaneous decision I’ve ever made in my life. I set out on a trip to London that was supposed to only be two weeks long. I had friends there that I made working/living in New York, so I had a couple of things halfway lined up & some people to meet that I’ve befriended online. The day after I arrived the Queen of England died… crazy. I didn’t realize how crazy it was for about another two weeks. I stayed with a now great friend named Aya who was kind enough to pattern that out for me. She put me on to Alpro strawberry & chocolate milk, we ran many errands together, smoked mad spliffs, & shared a lot about our lives in the time I was there. I arrived with more than enough to get me through the time I spent there, but I blew it very quickly doing the most. There were days I had invoice money, there were days that I was chasing invoices.

I assisted a good homie & amazing photographer, Zaineb Albeque with some photo work landing me on each side of London. I was helping Bangladeshi & Bengali locals load trucks with fish, carpets, lamps, etc. In East London for some cash to get food & in the same week I was getting full-course meals at Soho House for free, meeting people who talked about making me money from art entirely unprovoked. This made my eyes really wide about London, eager to work & show I can do more than just document, but in my eyes, it was all ups no downs. I learned so much from my experiences there, how to save & spend a bean or two, & to follow my gut instinct always. 

I saw Madlib and Sam Gellaitry perform live for free thanks to Vicky Grout another great photographer. I went bombing with some guys who paint that I met on the street after catching one of the homies in the crew crossing out somebody else’s piece on a box truck. I drove a boat up the river Thames thanks to my homie Art who I’ve known for over 4 years now. 

I played basketball every couple of days at Bethnal Green basketball court & met this guy named Sam who recently moved to East London from South London to pursue his acting career. He’s featured in an upcoming Netflix jawn soon!!! Hyped for him for real. He spoke on the art scene in East London & what it was like growing up in South. I spent a lot of time in South as well. Brixton, Peckham, South Croydon, Streatham & Lewisham. It reminded me the most of “home”. I saw a lot of art in London, I met a lot of people, and I had what seemed like a lifetime's worth of experiences in about a month and a half. I saw one of Josiane M.H. Pozi's live performance pieces at Serpentine Gallery, I skated South Bank, I tried tons of new food, I had beans for breakfast, I smoked hash for the first time & had tons of chicken & chips. I learned how to take the tube very quickly & double-decker buses are now normal to me. I fell in love with London & by the time you’re reading this I’ll already be back to have an even better experience than the first.

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D’ANDRE WILLIAMS

Reimagining Black Futures with Black Beyond

black beyond in conversation with Eileen Isagon Skyers

BLACK BEYOND is an experimental art and design group composed of multidisciplinary artists that come together to reimagine alternate realities for blackness: from an extended reality art exhibition, to designing The Kitchen Gala Afterparty Experience, to explorations of sound as a tool for survival.

Their ideological underpinnings began with a proposal by their now creative director jazsalyn and Neta Bomani for an art exhibition that (like many things) was abruptly postponed due to the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020. Over time, jazsalyn’s continued dialogue with the artists led them to ideate a new kind of exhibition experience, designed and produced with a group of fellow artists, for the digital realm. 

The group launched BLACK BEYOND _origins on NewArt.City, and coupled the extended reality exhibition with activations, DJ sets, and performances by TYGAPAW, Ahya Simone, Daniel Brathwaite-Shirley, Yves B Golden, and The Heaux History Project, among others. The fluid, multidisciplinary nature of their programming is intentional: their aim is to cultivate a sense of community through telepresence and create spaces that defy the erasure that is so often normalized across Black communities online. Looking to Legacy Russell’s Glitch Feminism, they wanted to “glitch” the internet with an exhibition that could untether itself from our filtered and algorithmic experiences.

By the time they were finally able to open their first IRL exhibition  _assembly, alchemy, ascension [a^3], they had developed a unique cross-platform repertoire that spans visual curation, conceptual language, a dublab radio show, a custom origins typeface, and a community practice.

Naturally intrigued by how they were working to transcend the borders of institutions, domains, galleries, and gatekeepers, I sat down with creative director and founder jazsalyn, along with curators Shameekia Shantel Johnson and Yvonne Mpwo to discuss BLACK BEYOND’s expansive trajectory of exhibitions and events—delving into what it means to reinvent digital material, and reclaim digital space for Black creatives.

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Eileen: Can you tell me a bit about BLACK BEYOND to begin? How did you all meet, and what were your motivations for starting?


jazsalyn: After starting my first semester at The New School, I was confronting my own struggles coming from a modest, single-parent household and migrating from the south. I felt an undeniable calling and sense of responsibility, and I was realizing how few black aspiring artists have access to institutional resources. 


Shameekia: Salome Asesga connected me with jazsalyn. We were doing similar work by using institutional resources to invest in a future generation of artists, art workers, and community activists. Since then, I grew more familiar with BLACK BEYOND and how she transformed it from an exhibition concept into a new media research group. She and I kept in conversation, and she reached out to ask if I’d collaborate with her to help produce _origins.


Yvonne: I was also struck by BLACK BEYOND because my current curatorial practice centers Black virtual realities. jazsalyn and I connected after a community meeting hosted by NYFA. 


Eileen: Your first IRL exhibition, assembly, alchemy, ascension recently closed at The New School. 

The curatorial statement reads as more of an open question:

a^3 serves as a critical analysis of black metatheories and how they relate to each as a continuum of thought and practice [...]  This is not a drill. nor an equation, or a curatorial statement. This is a call to action! a^3 asks,what does the BLACK BEYOND mean to you? Was this intentional?

jazsalyn: The curatorial statement is open ended—and for some that may not sit well, because people want answers. I’m into the idea of shifting power dynamics in the art sphere, so I approach the curatorial process as a way of building an intentional community of artists and cultural workers, and allowing our work to be in conversation. I see our programming as an opportunity for us to flesh out answers together.

Eileen: I'd love to learn more about some of the works exhibited in [a^3].

Can you talk through Zainab Aliyu's Affirmations for My Existence, Jasmine Hayes’s piece, and Jamal Ademola's video work? 


jazsalyn: Jamal and Zainab are both of Yoruba descent. And both of their works explore identity through poetry—but it goes much deeper than identity. Their poetry serves as a digital mantra or chant of affirmation. Zai is looking at Sufi poetry, which embodies a spiritual experience, composed around Islamic mystical ideas or themes. Her father is trilingual, and although she doesn't identify as Arabic, that is a part of her identity.


Yvonne: Jazmine Hayes explores themes of Black-femme labor and care through a braided tapestry in her pieces These Hands Work and the three embossments of braids titled “Coded 1-3”. Jazmine is interested in the history of weaving as a communal language that has connected the African diaspora. . The way the braids in these embossments  are configured resembles binary codes. Binary codes are the virtual language of world building and inform virtual reality. She, in a sense, digitizes an indigenous language and practice.


Eileen: I’ve definitely thought about how many different cultures, languages, and visual identities are conflated into one singular system of “sameness” through technology. The tech creates this filtration for our entire visual system that precludes, or excludes, so many different histories.

I’m curious: can you share more about your community work? I really appreciate how your work exercises and activates Black space both on and offscreen.

jazsalyn: I’ve curated many different experiences as an extension of BLACK BEYOND: performances, lectures, and a workshop with a meditative sound bath. During one workshop, we wrote letters of support to political activists that had been imprisoned. I am always thinking about how to expand that programming and how to incorporate it into the group exhibition aspect of BLACK BEYOND.

I worked with Jeharrah Pearl and NAVEL LA to produce a sound workshop featuring Akeema Zane, which explores sound as a technology and tool for survival. It’s been a tool of refuge, preservation, and transcendence for the afrodiaspora. Through that workshop, BLACK BEYOND caught the attention of dublab, and I started the radio show alternate realities. 


Eileen: There was also a sound project in the [a^3] exhibition right?

Jazaslyn: Yes—Johann Diedrick is another artist within the black beyond sphere, exploring the sonic realm. They facilitated a workshop for the [a^3] show called sonic shelters. We wanted to draw parallels between their sonic research and the other [a^3] artists exploring sound or machine learning to reflect, shift, and alter black experience. 

Eileen: I was also super impressed by black beyond_origins, your online exhibition on New Art City last year. From herbalist Yves B Golden, to TYGAPAW, you were really able to create a locus of activity online during a time when much of the world was still shut down. Can you tell me a bit more about your experience creating that space?

Shameekia: It was interesting working with the design team and learning how the space functions. It was my first time collaborating on a virtual/XR experience, so figuring out the logistics of storytelling through the digital space gave us a language we wouldn’t necessarily have in the physical world (like hosting a live-streamed TYGAPAW performance in a cave just floating above the water). 

jazsalyn: The concept for _origins emerged from a dark space, and the will to overcome hopelessness. I found hope within friends, fellow femme and queer artists, and art cultural workers who were also challenging erasure, and this community just continued to grow into a team of collaborators, ultimately bringing _origins into reality. 



Eileen: A lot of ideas about the “metaverse” have already been co-opted by Big Tech, and there seems to be an assumption that black and queer practitioners have not been core contributors to this kind of work. As we shape the next steps and stages of digital architecture, I'm curious what your thoughts are on how major corporations establish this footprint in digital space—and how we might resist, refuse, or circumnavigate them?


jazsalyn: During lockdown and throughout various phases of the pandemic, the internet wasn’t the safest place for me. I was actually thinking a lot about world-building and safety, and finding our own spaces. So much of black memory has been extracted and projected onto us. It’s like we have to live as this monolith in this world where we aren’t truly ourselves. So I became really interested in the internet, and the different aliases and identities you can embody through and beyond the screen.

The topic of resistance and refusal makes me think of the work I’ve been exploring to recall ancestral intelligence and exercises to re-indigenize technology. REIMAGINE Prototype 002, which is my personal and conceptual work featured in [a^3].

On the surface, it appears as a meditative visualization. But if you dig deeper, it’s a poetic computational study to re-indigenize algorithms and reimagine lost indigenous histories and technologies. Through python syntax, RP 002 hacks and illustrates parallels between the lost histories of afrodiaspora, ancient extraterrestrial civilizations and colonial subjugation. The RP 002 ML algorithm is trained using images collected from NASA and The MET’s “African” Collection database. And the visualization is the algorithm attempting to recreate the images in the dataset.

Eileen: What was it like to curate the Kitchen Gala After-party experience? The event looked incredible, and it honored some legacy artists from The Kitchen’s storied past.

jazsalyn: I'm so grateful to The Kitchen for inviting us to create such a historic moment in time to honor Lorraine O'Grady and George Lewis! For the after-party experience, we invited Holland Andrews and Alima Lee to transcend guests through a hypnotic, sonic portal at the Cathedral of Saint John Divine. The performance was accompanied by ethereal and chaotic light art, creating an immersive audiovisual experience to explore themes such as new dimensions, portal activations, vibrant rebirth and Pluto’s return. 


Eileen: Can you share what’s next for BLACK BEYOND?


jazsalyn: It was originally this concept for a group show and now it's this whole art platform, and new media research group. We are figuring out what that means for the future, and what it means to continue to expand in a more intentional way. It's been such a journey that we are taking some time for deep reflection and we want to really embrace that slowness and intentionality.


BLACK BEYOND would like to acknowledge and give infinite thanks to the _origins team members: Amron Lee, Avery Youngblood, Ege Uz, Eli Peralta, Gabe Deko, Kevin Cadena, jazsalyn, Livia Foldes, Sammie Veeler, Regina Flores Mir, Shameekia Shantel Johnson, tee topor.


And exhibition artists: Adama Delphine Fawundu, Akeema Zane, Amirah, Anastasia Warren, Asha Hassan Nooli, Asia Stewart, ed-en, Elizabeth ‘Liz’ Mputu, Fields Harrington, Harmony Holiday, Jamal Ademola, Jazmine Hayes, JAZSALYN, Kiara Kalinda, Lamb, Mika Gadsden, Maliyamungu Muhande, Olivia M. Ross, Terri Ayanna Wright, Vitória Cribb, Willy Ndatira, Xavier Scott Marshall and Zainab Aliyu.

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BLACK BEYOND

SHOPPING IS THE CURE. Patrick No 
catches up with RP's founder Sophia Boli

The third installation of Sophia Boli’s Retail Pharmacy finds itself on the gallery-brimmed Henry Street, which borders Chinatown and the LES. Vendors and patrons around the world are stopping over, eager to acquire clothes, jewelry, home decor, and a whole lot more. As hundreds and hundreds of clientele go in and out of the doors, all I can see is a communal smile on the patrons faces as well as Boli’s. Boli is a key figure in this post-vaccine independent fashion world and I was lucky enough to find some time before the pop-up to catch up and discuss how Retail Pharmacy began, plans for the future, and how community is key. 

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Patrick No: So, you said that you’re from LA, moved to Hawaii when you were younger, correct? Did you move back to LA before ending up in NYC?

Sophia Boli: Yes. I always wanted to live here honestly, but LA is obviously much closer to Hawaii. My parents are older and I thought I would visit them a lot when I lived in LA I was like, “Oh, probably visit twice a year.” I think I visited two times the whole time I lived there, in like five and a half years. When COVID happened, all the rents in NYC dropped and I felt like, “All right, time to leave.” I've been talking about it for a while. I told Casey (boyfriend) I wanted to leave. He used to live here, so we just moved together and it almost kind of worked out. I ended up moving to NYC in November 2020.

SB: I went to ArtCenter in Pasadena for a semester… then I dropped out. (laughs) I was studying photography and I was doing photography thinking that I wanted to be a photographer, but not realizing that I actually really liked creative direction and styling. When I was growing up in Hawaii, there wasn't that creative industry where I could pick a job. Like I did everything. I did the styling, photography, creative direction; all of it.

SB: So I thought that that was just what being a photographer was. Then I learned that it's more… snapping the camera for other people's ideas. I realized I didn’t really like that. The only class I was getting an A in was Concept. Even my concept teacher even told me, he was like, “There's something weird in your head that's gonna be killed by this school.” I'd end up going into a massive amount of debt and probably fail most of my classes. Is it worth it? My teacher was like, "I'm gonna be honest with you girl. It's not.”

PN: In the age of internet, technology and online shopping, explain to me your reasoning for why retail is so important. Personally, I don't think I've bought a lot of clothes online, for the past year. Unless it's like SSENSE or eBay. 

SB: I think especially with a lot of the pieces I carry, they're very complex or there's details to them that don't necessarily translate in photos or online. Some of them are really hard to tell what they look like.

SB: It's like A: Internet sales don't do the clothing justice, in a sense of looks. And B: I think that there's something special about finding a piece of clothing in person and connecting that memory of getting the item with the day it happened. I remember where I got almost every single thing I own. Whether it's something somebody gave it to me, or something I bought, found, whatever it is, I remember every single thing.

"AT RETAIL PHARMACY, YOU CAN TELL WHEN SOMETHING'S HANDMADE VERSUS MADE AT AN ATELIER. IT COMES DOWN TO CONCEPT VERSUS PRODUCTION."
-SOPHIA BOLI

PN: The retail experience is something that I find super special.

SB: I do too. I think a lot of these people do also. I think that's why they make garments like they do, pieces that come from their heart because they like to see people wearing things that are personal and have a personal connection with them. I mean, the Internet's great, and Instagram's great because that's how I find all these designers, but buying something in person is more special. You get that whole memory. I love the idea of doing the popup with it because I throw this whole party together. So it's a really good day for everyone to remember and then they get to bring something home with them.

PN: Totally! You take a look at your closet or you look in the mirror and you'll remember the day that you got that piece of clothing.

SB: Exactly. People get hyped about it, you know? They get to run into friends they haven't seen in a long time or the vendors get to be shown with designers who they admire a lot. It's just really fulfilling for me and I hope it's fulfilling for them too.

PN: Describe to me the moment where you had the thought of: "I want to create a popup." Did you feel like something was missing in the city and that you wanted to fill this weird void? Post vaccine, post-pandemic, a lot of stuff closed. Then stuff like this is popping up.

SB: It was a mix of things. So I always kind of wanted to have a store eventually one day. It was kind of always in the back of my mind. I've worked in retail since I was able to work. That was my first job.

SB: Merchandising windows at a boutique in Hawaii. I would come in every other weekend and do some weird artsy display in the window in this boutique. My mom owned a store when I was really little, and then she worked in a high-end boutique. I was raised in the back of the shops because we didn't have money for daycare or anything. Even my grandpa owned a little five-and-a-dime corner store in Brooklyn. It's just kind of like in my blood!

SB: I definitely don't have the money to open up a brick-and-mortar, that's for damn sure. I felt that there were all these pieces I was seeing on people and at other popup events, but they just didn't have that much representation in person. There's like maybe one or two other stores that kind of sell this type of merchandise.

SB: Love them! They're great. We have some crossover and I like what they do, but it's like there can't just be one. That's not good for the designers. It's not good for the artists. It's like we live in a consumer society and people are buying something with every paycheck they get.

PN: You wake up in New York and you spend 40 bucks.

SB: Exactly, exactly. I'm really big on the idea that there needs to be more of these types of shops, and this is the only way we're going to actually change the fashion landscape and the way people shop. The masses are not going to follow if two or three people are doing popups. It needs to be something that's really noticeable. What I did notice about living in NYC is how many people were doing popups, especially in the first summer I lived here. I was like, “Oh, okay, I guess that’s the model.”

PN: You were like, “People are doing popups, let me do one! I wanna do a popup.”

SB: Yeah, exactly. I was trying to figure out how I could put together some kind of store, eventually one day. In the meantime, I was managing a boutique in the West Village working full time, and I was trying to learn everything I could about the back. Pretty much trying to learn whatever I didn't already know and just save up money. I had a little bit set aside that I could put towards display and shipping and packaging and all that. I just approached Casey (no gallery owner), and I was like: "I know you guys have some open time! Can I do a popup? It's been something I really wanna do!" I didn't have the money yet to rent out a location. It would've been another, you know, six months before I probably saved up that extra stupid amount of money for popup locations in New York. 

PN: In recent years, trends come and go as quickly as a month. Maybe even like two weeks or maybe even like two months. How do you think this affects the new generation of fashion designers that you carry here? Do you think there's something that is special about what you carry? Something that's like something that's not really on main fashion's radar.

SB: I have a mix of designers that get pieces produced for them and do seasonal collections, and then people that just make stuff as they want to. Whether it's upcycled or made from scratch, they do it on their own time. I think it's interesting to see that the people who are creating pieces on their own time tend to be very ahead of the trend. They're not relying on that extra six months of production time or having to get your patterns made and then sending it to your atelier or all that extra stuff. At Retail Pharmacy, you can tell when something's handmade versus made at an atelier. It comes down to concept versus production. I see some of these pieces that are more conceptual and I'm like: "Okay. I feel like that's going to be a trend soon." I actually even had something happen with one of my designers in the last shop. We had this molded black plastic bra top from expo 33. Doja Cat wore this one by OTTOLINGER that looked exactly like it. People kept tagging her and being like, "Oh my God, I can't believe Doja Cat is wearing your thing! She was like, "Wait, that's not mine. Somebody else made that... a year after me."

PN: This popup is the type of thing that stylists or assistant stylists come to, they see something and they're like, "Oh, this is handmade, this is one of one, I want this. This is gonna be something totally new that a lot of people haven't seen yet.”

SB: I'm not paranoid, but I am becoming more aware that people actually do come down to the Lower East Side and look at what the "young cool kids" are doing and they just rip off that.

PN: Yeah. You have like a 27-year-old stylist come in and be like, "I can't think of anything. I'm gonna go see what other people are doing."

"I’M JUST REALLY HAPPY TO BE ABLE TO CREATE AN EVENT IN A SPACE FOR ALL THESE PEOPLE TO COME AND MEET UP AND HANG OUT, BECAUSE I NEVER HAD THAT GROWING UP."
-SOPHIA BOLI

SB: No, it's interesting. It's a thing where it's: Always on the mood board, never on the set. The amount of times I've been sent mood boards where I'm like, "That's my friend on here. Like, why don't we just hire her?” Yeah…

SB: It's weird. We're all broke. We're not getting any more money if you just keep doing that.

PN: I know. Yeah! A designer you carry, Camila Frater, one of her shirts got picked up by Pink Pantheress and was worn in an ID article. What's your opinion on having a popup that brings more attention to independent designers, then seeing articles on the "big screen." There's this pipeline and you're a part of it.

SB: I've given them a place to go to! (Laughs) It's interesting. I try not to think about it that much. That's like a very small, negative aspect of a very positive whole thing that I'm doing. For the most part, I'm helping these designers make money and gain more exposure. I can't even stress how grateful I am to be able to do it and to have this opportunity. I grew up in a place where this kind of community did not exist. I remember when I was in middle school, I wore some pants that I revamped myself. I just got shit on for them. I got so badly teased.

SB: I tried wearing clothes that were "cool," but that didn't work either. So, I'm just really happy to be able to create an event in a space for all of these people to come to and meet up and hang out, because I never had that growing up.

PN: You want to make what you wish you had?

SB: Exactly. I want to create what I wish I had been able to experience.

PN: I feel like the best satisfaction is seeing some like 16-year-olds come in and take a look around.

SB: The last shop, there was this one moment where four late teens or very early twenties kids came in. I was sitting at my desk and they were looking down like, "How can we be in the shop?" They were asking all these things with wide eyes. And I was just like...

PN: Is this real? It's like a surreal moment.

SB: It's all surreal!!! Like I said, I didn't grow up as a cool kid in Hawaii at all. So, I definitely never thought that people would like what I'm doing. I always just accepted that I do things a little different and that's how it is. I didn't know that there were so many people out here in NYC having it like that too.

PN: Based on the first and second time, I'm assuming you were like, "Holy shit. People are like-

SB: I know! I only had like 27 designers. The first shop was still like pretty fucking insane. I was overwhelmed and then I realized that this could actually work. People show up for stuff out here. People are interested in this. I just think people don't care as much about clothes in other places. I think a large part of that has to do with the fact that we're always on the street. When I'm running around the city, I run into so many people. I could never not be dressed well!

PN: (laughs) I know right! I was just talking about this with my friends. We all felt that we finally hit the moment where we live in New York where we go outside and we see like seven people you know. You have like 50 plus designers here, right? How do you find most of them?

SB: The street, Instagram, and through friends. Friends will definitely suggest stuff. I also have that make stuff too. Even through just the shop now. There's this one designer I have, Bone, who I found because one of the customers from the first shop was wearing a top by her. I was like, "Wait, who made that top? I love that top." Then I reached out to them to be in the next shop and now she is part her family. 

PN: How nice is that experience of being able to walk around the streets of New York and being like, “Oh my God. People are wearing like really cool shit, all the time!”

SB: It's so cool. It's still so surreal to me when I see people wearing stuff from the store.

PN: Yeah. Like what's that, what's that feeling like?

SB: It's the best feeling. I can only imagine that the only better feeling would be like, if I made the stuff and they were wearing it. (Laughs) You just like knowing that somebody supports what you do.

PN: What's next for Retail Pharmacy. Bigger space? Bigger event? I heard that you and Parkmart are doing something soon...

SB: So yeeeeeah! We're planning on trying to do something huge. We want a space that can accommodate it because we don't wanna half-ass it, you know?

PN: What are some things that you really want to do in a year or in the future?

SB: I want to be able to quit my day job and pay myself with this, just so I can dedicate more time to it. I don't know. I'm definitely the no expectations, no disappointments, kind of person. Every shop, I tell myself: “No one's gonna come. I'm not gonna make any sales. Oh my God. I'm gonna have to send everything back.” I just want to keep doing more events. The last one where I had a runway and stuff.

PN: Is there gonna be a fashion show here today?

SB: Canceled sadly. I was bummed because I didn't have time to plan something else. I was gonna plan a poetry reading last minute and I hit up my friend. She's like, “Sophia, there's three other poetry readings on Thursday night. I was like, “Nevermind.”

PN: Seems like you want to have more events happening than just runways?

SB: Yeah. I loved how I had that 10-day popup. I want to do longer ones and be able to have different things going on throughout the week. Maybe even a month-long one. I'm actually planning something in August that is going to involve events that are either reading, poetry-based, or performance art. A lot of the designers in the shop have multiple disciplines. Whether they're poets, painters, performance artists, or even musicians.

SB: Yeah. A lot of them are multifaceted. I'm just trying to figure out what different ways I can showcase those other skills that they have.

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Retail Pharmacy

Words by Apryl Fuentes
Images by Michael Tyrone Delaney

Curatorial duo Natalia Luna and Josh Terris, dreamt up a space for play, from a shared passion for special design finds and the stories that follow each piece. On a classically sunny LA day we met up for lunch; our conversation meandered through a range of design and art-related vignettes. In a world of mass production, overpriced resell culture, and quantity over quality – formas is a one of one. 

There is a storytelling nature to curating a space, combining new with old, little accents from the past here and there. On the nightstand alongside the photo booth picture strip, is some random nostalgic junk from a yard sale or your parent’s garage. What about the heirloom your mother used to make her mother’s recipe, amongst bright ceramic dishes handcrafted by someone you admire. Tell me the story behind your favorite chair; the one you sit in while you write that email you’ve been meaning to get to. Every object has its function and sentimental value. Obsessed with archival design, I was drawn to this project by Natalia and Josh.

Los Angeles-based design hub formas came to fruition in the fall of 2019, when the duo came together to curate a feel-good experience with “home goods from the future.” A visit to their by-appointment space will leave you sparked with wonderment. You can sit on a larger-than-life chair shaped like a baseball catcher’s mitt or peruse the various conversational trinkets – make sure to ask Josh about the infamous golden glove. Not everything is what it appears to be. 

I’d never interacted with a Gaetano Pesce piece before, let alone two – in person. The Italian architect and designer is best known for his use of unconventional materials to create functional forms with an eccentricity ahead of his time. This particular vessel, for Fish by Gaetano Pesce, is made from flexible resin and is essentially flubber for adults. I was surprised by its texture and resilience, considering how cautious I’d been to interact with the piece thinking it was fabricated from glass. It’s like when you go shopping with an adult and they tell you to watch out because anything you touch and break, they have to buy. I maneuvered through the studio with this same "break it, buy it" sentiment reverberating through my mind; except this time I could interact with objects uninhibited by my elementary fear.

“I remember being at my grandma and grandpa's house and they had a modular sofa. It wasn't cool or anything but we'd be watching TV moving it around, like little kids just playing with it. You're a kid thinking, 'why does this move so much' and like, 'why can we have it in different places?' Now knowing the design, it’s so cool.” - Josh Terris 

Delving into the recesses of our minds, we exchanged our earliest design-related memories. I often think about how much art surrounded me while I was growing up. My child brain didn’t make that connection between the different mediums I was engaging with, at least not until I found myself taking a deep interest in what I do now. Similarly, Natalia shared those moments when her dad would take her to Ikea to peruse the showroom for vibrant, modernized home decor at an accessible price point, which the company is most notably celebrated for. Those earlier Ikea pieces are now collectibles, with most of their worth attached to the rarity of designs in their simplistic yet funky glory. 

The duo muse about their particular interest in design that is built to last. When I asked if they would ever design a chair, both immediately rejected the thought. “I'm more so just interested in the history of how long a chair has been here and the fact that it's still in perfect condition or it's not. I would want to design a chair if I felt like we weren't prepared to do it. I wanna do it the right way. I want a chair that's gonna last forever.”

Her interest and desire for research, is the major driving force behind this labor of love. Natalia created a chair obsessed Instagram account @situ.ation “for those who love to sit”– an unintended prelude to form.as. We related on being part of zine culture circa 2012, surprised we never crossed paths during any given independent book fair that took place from the bay to NYC. Natalia and Josh are collectively inspired by an environment familiar to many of us who grew up in Southern California, a place rich with subcultures. These were the motivations and inspirations behind creative mediums the two participated in, predating their collective endeavor. There's skate culture, the desert and its ample space, punk culture, music, landscapes, and road trips among many escapes that influence discovery.

If Natalia can’t envision a piece of furniture or decor in her home, then she can’t fathom collecting it for the studio. Her creative pursuit is less about the money and has everything to do with the adrenaline that comes from each find. Sourcing is the reward. I can feel the excitement shared between her and Josh, while they retell wayward Craigslist encounters, driving long distances for a gem. Or the time Natalia manifested a Pierre Cardin mirror after endless hours of searching. There ended up being the exact one she wanted, right up the street at a neighbor’s house. If you look hard enough you might even recognize a piece or two from their collection in the background of some A-list celebrity’s Instagram photo moment. That’s beside the point. As it ever evolves, formas shapeshifts into new functions and invites you to pull up a chair.

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Formas

A Conversation With This LA Based Design Studio

Words By Ryan Blackway
Images by Cult Matheson, Photo Assist: Kemi Adejumo 
Styling: Kelly Benjamin 

Lil Zé For Cult Classic Radio

Cyanotypes, Sacred Objects and a Practice of Intimacy

Ash Allen in conversation with Esra CanoğullarıPhotography by Alex Burholt

Lil Zé
For Cult Classic Radio

Ash Allen in conversation with Esra Canoğulları
Photography by Alex Burholt